DISQUS

Matthew Yglesias · 4 years ago

I have no ideas and no coherent philosophy. Just a vehement hatred of rightwingers, a lust for power, a love of both the game of politics and the joys of policy wonkery, and a taste for polemics. If I wanted to develop coherent ideas, I would have stayed in school!

Will Wilkinson · 4 years ago

As I suspected!

praktike · 4 years ago

Intellectually serious?

You know, you libertarians are pretty strange ... always valuing ideology over a mixed economy that has worked fairly well over the years. Sure, there are some problems, but you folks have been agitating on moral grounds while talking about what a disaster our current setup is for some time now and, truth be told, America has done pretty well regardless.

Carry on.

Will Wilkinson · 4 years ago

praktike, I'm pretty heterodox among libertarians on the mixed-economy issue. So careful about the "you folks" business. I'm willing to admit that Sweden is a huge triumph of civilization, and that almost all existing high-growth liberal democracies approximate ideal societies, given the constraints to which they are subject. The argument for a freer market and polycentric structure of governance is that it works even better.

praktike · 4 years ago

I hereby welcome you to the Order of ProSwedish Libertarians.

GilM · 4 years ago

Is the membership above two yet?

Will Wilkinson · 4 years ago

Who won't join me in applauding my friends at Timbro, working tirelessly to help Sweden ever more closely approximate the ideal of liberal order?!

Wild Pegasus · 4 years ago

If I wanted to develop coherent ideas, I would have stayed in school!

Let's not get carried away. Academia isn't exactly swimming in in coherent ideas.

- Josh

dfad · 4 years ago

to what extent is a coherent governing philosophy a strategic necessity? Answer: To a very large extent.

Wait. Are you seriously taking the position that what we've been witnessing for the last four years is a "coherent governing philosophy"?

Micha Ghertner · 4 years ago

always valuing ideology over a mixed economy that has worked fairly well over the years.

Compared to what? I never understand this criticism. Without some sort of conception of the ideal, how can we say whether welfare capitalism works well or not? Sure, it might be better than command-and-control economies, but that's like saying, "I'm not such a bad person, at least compared to Hitler." Wow, great accomplishment, mixed economy. Kudos.

Or as Chris Rock so eloquently puts it,

"Niggers always want credit for some shit they're supposed to do. They'll brag about stuff a normal man just does. They'll say something like, 'Yeah, well I take care of my kids.' You're supposed to, you dumb motherfucker. 'I ain't never been to jail.' Whaddya want? A cookie? You're not supposed to go to jail, you low-expectation-having motherfucker!"

mdf · 4 years ago

The people who make the rules make the rules benefit themselves, the more so the better - don't get in the way of that.

Is that libertarianism?

Micha Ghertner · 4 years ago

A pretty good description of its opposite. Sounds a lot like the Public Choice (and Marxist) critique of the state.

Tom Hanna · 4 years ago

Liberalism's coherent governing philosophy is that governing is a good in itself. If there's a reason that their strategy is all about getting elected, it's because their philosophy is all about centralizing power and if you're centralizing power you sure don't want the other guy to get elected.

mdf · 4 years ago

I'm a duck soup marxist.

If the rich and powerful keep ratcheting down on everybody else and the philosophisers and pundits say "well, that's just the way it is" - where are we headed?

monkyboy · 4 years ago

I wouldn't worry about it, mdf. The rich and powerful of this generation are just passing on their debt to the rich and powerful of the next generation.

Once the Democrats are back in power, estate taxes and income taxes and capital gains taxes will be raised. When I started working, the maximum income tax rate was 92%, I expect we'll see it get back up there in the future.

Anonymous · 4 years ago

"Sweden is a huge triumph of civilization"

This is sarcasm, right?

Mace · 4 years ago

"Sweden is a huge triumph of civilization"

This is sarcasm, right??

Micha Ghertner · 4 years ago

Monkyboy liberalism: You've come this far already; why not go the extra 8% and make it a cool 100?

Surely Democrats will regain power with that invigorating clarion call.

azad · 4 years ago

One thing I've been thinking about, is how coherent philosophies or worldviews (as expressed to me first by John Tomassi) are very useful not as governing rationales, but as principles to rally people. coherent philosophies translate pretty easily to ideologies (and what are ideologies but as Michael Freeden says the "ideational systems that enable us to choose to become what we want to become." )

Sounds like a pretty darn good way to organize politically (or er religious) likeminded masses, because hey once you have some pretty good approximation of the truth (semi-capital T) it's pretty easily exportable and well, votable...

Then again you run into those oh so untidy problems of bad consequences from your seemingly coherent first principles.

of course the argument can be made that egalitarian liberalism is failing now because it doesn't offer a coherent philosophy, or one that doesn't resonate to a majority of the people (what's 49% anyways). But at one point it did.

Brett Bellmore · 4 years ago

The nice thing about coherent ideologies is that you can test them against reality. Then if they fail you can modify them. But trying to be without a coherent ideology is like trying to do science without theories; You're just a kid randomly mixing things from your chemistry set, and even if you hit on a success, you won't know how to replicate it.

dick mulliken · 4 years ago

I'm not aware that either liberals or conservatives have produced much in the way of politcal philosphy in recent times - though I would agree that conservatives on the whole are more appreciative of philosophy.
The great challenge for liberals is to find an integration of their traditional roots in liberty and freedom with 20th century state liberalism. (In this sense I'm a Cato Institute liberal).
Conservatives on the other hand have to deal with the contradiction of a traditional conservatism which champions an ordered, stable social organization while holding the viper of free enterprise to its breast. Anent Adam Smith, (and Schumpeter) free enterprise is -to its glory- the very opposite of stability and lasting social order.
Please, don't anyone tell me to read Rawls again. I learned a lot doing it once, but once is it, Charlie.