Will Wilkinson - Latest Comments in The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

jason4000 — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 02:47:06 -0000

Whoah. I should have known. cato huh.
Will Wilkenson, you are exactly the type of man average Americans will have their sights trained on.
Screw this gay canadian thread

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

jason4000 — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 02:10:19 -0000

Again, Dumbass.
Canadians have been having their calls recorded since digital cell-phones
became common. CSE ( Canadian Security Establishment, CSIS, RCMP
All the things you accuse of the Americans has been done to you first and you wouldn't even know it unless an American had told you it was happening.
Free my ass. Canadians are Pwed by England and the British "Crown" and all the
European aristocracy that attend Build-a-burger meetings since 1954.
That's why you see no unrest in Canada. It's owned lock-stock and barrel by the corporate elite with the RCMP as a super-armed goon squad as an occupying army against a bunch of "eh?" hillbilly "think we're elite" retards with no guns to fight back.
WOW, Canadians are sooo smart.

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

jason4000 — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 01:59:44 -0000

jason deleted--redundant---same post--accident

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

jason4000 — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 01:42:37 -0000

Dumbass.
I'm in Canada and you completely forgot about the 2nd amendment and the Declaration of independence.
How free are Canadians when they're all unarmed and their National Police Force is armed to the teeth?
Americans, don't ever listen to these
whiney-accented little brown nosers.
Canadians sound like this to the world (dumbass)
We're better, eeh we are, eeh? we know it eeh? we have to prove it eeh? We have lots of frozen land that's good for nothing eeh? it looks really big on a map eeh? the actual populated area of Canada amounts to the size of South Dakota eeh? We'er better eeh?
That get's old and tiring really fast.

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

unblock_porn — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 09:11:18 -0000

You hit the nail on the head.

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

Non-Yank — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:38:41 -0000

"Is it now possible to even half-credibly make the case that the United States, in the age of warrantless wiretaps and the shoeless airport security line, is a freer country than Canadia?"

That depends on what kind of "freer." What do shoeless airport security lines have to do with economic freedom investigated in the report?

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

Nylund — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 17:31:04 -0000

Fun fact. Toronto is actually further south than Washington state, Montana, and North Dakota. Its very close to being south of all of Minnesota as well. Its also more south than most of Idaho, Oregon (more south than Portland), Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire.

As someone who has lived in both, the US seems more repressive. Also, I was a student in Canada and I got to write off my tuition, my rent, my textbooks, and my transportation costs, and I could carry my deductions forward in a way that you can't in the US. If I had stayed past school, I wouldn't have had to pay any taxes for a couple years from these carried deductions. Although officially, my taxes were higher in Canada, when all was said and done, I paid less there, but this would not hold true for higher tax brackets. That being said, the 15% or so sales tax in Toronto was pretty bad.

Going from Toronto to Texas, I actually miss the gun laws. Its taken me a while to readjust to the fact that I have to be careful where I walk at night. I got very used to taking my safety for granted. When I first came back the US felt a little like "Mad Max" in comparison at times.

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

Sigivald — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:33:49 -0000

Well, Will, you did say Is it now possible to even half-credibly make the case that the United States, in the age of warrantless wiretaps and the shoeless airport security line, is a freer country than Canadia?

Since you brought up non-economic freedoms, they must be fair game to discuss.

And Canada has freedom of speech issues that make it plainly second-rank to the United States in that area.

Someone already mentioned the "Human Rights Commissions". There's also the famous complaint by lesbian sex shops that they can't import porn from the US because it's "obscene"; Customs Canada will seize it.

And then there's the Notwithstanding Clause, which makes arbitrary government action in the US look like child's play in comparison; there's not even any recourse against the Clause, as there can be in the medium to long term against actual overreach against Civil Liberties in the US, since use of the Clause is explicitly permitted.

And of course, Canadians are drastically less free to be armed for self defense, a fundamental human right.

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

Pithlord — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 13:26:31 -0000

It is largely correct to say that the founders of Canada intended a centralized union. However, you have to be a bit more careful than the whole Frank Scott-Bora Laskin school was. Not everyone was John A. Macdonald, who basically didn't want provinces at all. The key parties within the Province of Canada were Brown's Grits and Cartier's Bleus, who were both more decentralist than Macdonald. And of course the same is even more true of the Maritimers and other British North Americans.

What you can say with confidence is that the founders wanted a more centralized union than the pre-Civil War US. They got that.

As for Canada's economic freedom, I think the most illiberal healthcare system in the OECD should count for a bit more. Things would be far worse if the US wasn't so close.

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

Snorri Godhi — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 06:23:49 -0000

"The objections to the rankings have so far focused on non-economic freedoms, which are not included in this metric."

Not true for my 2nd objection.

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

rsporter — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:33:28 -0000

"However, I do think that decentralization does increase the chances of having a free society."

That's why I mentioned the fusion of powers.

I also don't think that the Clarity Act does as much as you say. It doesn't "establish the right of the provinces to secede, provided they...fulfil certain criteria". Rather it gives the conditions that a province might enter into negotiations with the federal government.

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

Andrew Smith — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:41:53 -0000

Robert S. Porter wrote: "No Canada isn't a confederacy. Canada is a federation. Though Canada's formation is called 1867 confederation, it's not a confederacy."

You are quite right that Canada did not start out as a confederation in the modern sense of the word. The English word "confederation" only acquired its modern meaning (a union less centralized than a federation) circa in 1910. In fact, the 1867 constitution barely qualified as a federation: it was a compromise between US federalism and UK style unitary state. In fact, Canada's first PM thought that the provincial governments would only exist for a short period of time. But Canada is now a long way away from the vision of its founders (which I welcome as an advocate of decentralization). It now IS a confederation and is, in some respects, far more decentralized than the US. The provinces control more of the tax revenue than American states and, in some cases, have quasi-diplomatic representation abroad. Quebec is even represented in international bodies. Moreover, the provinces in Canada have very strong identities. Few Americans fly a state flag from their front porch, yet it is not usual to see provincial flags flown on private residences in Canada. In rural Quebec, one sees more provincial flags than federal: that's why the former federal government gave out federal flags for free. By most indices of centralization, Canada is very decentralized (and that's a good thing).

"Canada adheres strongly to the principles of fusion of powers, as opposed to the US' separation of powers. That said there is certainly a distinct division between the provincial and federal powers and many battles have been fought over the language in the charter."

In American terminology, the separation of powers usually means legislative, executive, judicial. Canada, it is true, fuses the legislative and judicial branches. But this is a totally separate issue from whether it is a federation or a confederation, centralized or decentralized. You can have the separation of powers in a unitary state, you can mix the powers up in a federal state. Separate issue. Moreover, I'm not certain whether the separation of powers has any impact on individual freedom. However, I do think that decentralization does increase the chances of having a free society

"However, there is no formal right to secede in Canada. Indeed there basically nothing in Canadian law which describes the right to separate."

Actually, legislation passed in 2000 does establish the right of provinces to secede, provided that they meet fulfil certain criteria. An important criticism of the Clarity Act, known as Bill C-20, was that the criteria it established were too stringent and thus made secession practically unattainable, even if it said that a province had a theoretical right to secede. This legislation was drafted by the current head of the official opposition.

Secession, like other exit strategies, has the advantage of keeping the central government honest. The fact mainstream politicians in Canada talk about secession every now and then is very health. Much healthier than uncritical loyalty to the current nation-state boundaries that one sees in the United States.

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

Rubbadubdubicus — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:51:33 -0000

Talk about a non sequitur, Mike. I guess it seemed like as good a time as any to poison the well.

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

rsporter — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:11:30 -0000

First, I don't think will is actually moving to Canada, though I'd be fine with it. Second, Will wasn't saying that Canada's economic freedom was the deciding factor. He clearly stated that that combined with other freedoms makes Canada as free or freer than the United States.

And as a dual citizen of Canada/US, I think he's right.

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

rsporter — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:08:24 -0000

No Canada isn't a confederacy. Canada is a federation. Though Canada's formation is called 1867 confederation, it's not a confederacy. Indeed, Canada adheres strongly to the principles of fusion of powers, as opposed to the US' separation of powers. That said there is certainly a distinct division between the provincial and federal powers and many battles have been fought over the language in the charter.

However, there is no formal right to secede in Canada. Indeed there basically nothing in Canadian law which describes the right to separate. Quebec's attempts to leave with referendum in 1980 and 1995 brought forth just this legal issue. In response, in 1998 the Supreme Court of Canada rule in Reference re Secession of Quebec, 2 S.C.R. 217 that unilateral secession was not legal. They also ruled that Quebec would have the right to a referendum about separation but that would not be enough in itself to ignore the Canadian federal structure.

Thus, a bunch of libertarians moving to Canada in an attempt to make it secede would probably be a waste of time.

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

rsporter — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:52:27 -0000

Mike, grow up. You're not even staying on topic.

A) libertarians talk about civil rights all time. Does Radley Balko ring a bell?
B) Will (and Tyler Cowen too) has posted quite frequently about postive rights and how his view doesn't line up squarely behind the negative rights framework.

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

Mike Huben — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:21:37 -0000

This illustrates the basic problem of libertarianism: libertarianism is for the first-class citizens, not for ordinary people. The first class citizens are the multinational corporations and international investors. They're the ones who want economic freedoms, and don't care much about the individual freedoms of ordinary people.

The modern libertarian movement has been co-opted by these plutocratic interests. The first-class citizens have created and financed the numerous libertarian thinktanks and propaganda mills to churn out a continuous repetition of their talking points. Defense of civil liberties and (heaven forfend!) positive rights just isn't important to them.

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

Zephyrus — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:17:49 -0000

On reading this thread a bit more, I realize my point was made 1000 times already. My apologies.

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

Zephyrus — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:16:56 -0000

"No one denies that Singapore is ruled by a totalitarian regime"?

I hate to be nitpicky, but there's plenty to criticize about Singapore without calling it totalitarian. Its heavy handed government policies are pretty much jmerely Guiliani on steroids. Hardly a sterling recommendation, but calling them totalitarian is a bit of a stretch.

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

Yogi — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:43:02 -0000

Not only this, but think about how many more hockey moms Canada has!!!

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

Shawn — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:12:42 -0000

Ummm... Chile is #6

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

Al Brown — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:04:21 -0000

Isn't Canada a confederacy, with each province having the ability to secede?

Such a situation would make it possible for libertarians to congregate in one province and presumable break off into an independent country at some point.

Unless they've done the sensible thing and restricted naturalized citizens ability to vote on such an issue, this seems like one way to get a libertarian country.

Do you suppose it would have any trouble attracting jobs and industry from the US?

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

stpeter — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:09:54 -0000

+1 Roderick -- three cheers for the Anglosphere!

But I don't see what Will is so worked up about. Is it really worth moving from the USA to Canada for an increase in economic freedom (this year!) of one-hundredth of a point?

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

Roderick S — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:25:24 -0000

Could we have a small hat-tip to the British Empire, please? Switzerland being the only top-ten entry never to have been part of it.

Re: The True North Strong and Freer Than Ever

PJ — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:58:41 -0000

Will, Singapore is authoritarian not totalitarian. Big difference. And it does have rule of law. And little corruption. Maybe the 'nanny state' is a better characterization.